On May 30, 2020 the following question appeared on Quora and prompted some interesting answers and discussion:
As a defender of American “freedom”, how do you justify the fact that US citizens have to pay taxes to the US even if they live and work abroad (even if they have never been to the US but got their citizenship through their parents)?
I along with others attempted to answer the question. Here is my answer.
Some of the most interesting analysis comes from the comments to the answers. See the following answer and comment. I have turned David Johnstone’s comment into a post.
If someone lives and works abroad as an American citizen, he or she must be enjoying SOME benefits or they would logically renounce their US citizenship instead of paying US taxes. That would be a good solution for anyone facing this question. Just go!
David Johnstone responds to this answer with the following comment:
"What Is The Future Of Citizenship-Based Taxation?" Prof. William Byrnes (Texas A&M Law), Prof. Edward Zelinsky (Cardozo Law), John Richardson (Canadian attorney who represents US-Canada dual nationals), Kat Jennings (CEO Tax Connections) https://t.co/LP63MHEFYS
— William Byrnes (Tax Monk) (@williambyrnes) May 5, 2019
You are invited to submit your questions in advance. In fact, PLEASE submit questions. This is an opportunity to engage with Homelanders in general and the U.S. tax compliance community in particular.
Thanks to Professor Zelinsky for his willingness to engage in this discussion. Thanks to Kat Jennings of Tax Connections for hosting this discussion. Thanks to Professor William Byrnes for his willingness to moderate this discussion.
Tax Connections has published a large number of posts that I have written over the years (yes, hard to believe it has been years). As you may know I oppose FATCA, U.S. citizenship-based taxation and the use of FATCA to impose U.S. taxation on tax residents of other countries.
Tax Connections has also published a number of posts written by Professor Zelinsky (who apparently takes a contrary view).
This is post 9 in my series leading up to the May 17 Tax Connections discussion. The first eight posts have been for the purpose of demonstrating:
– in posts 1 to 4, Laura Snyder did a wonderful job in explaining how the U.S. tax system impacts the lives of Americans abroad. Her specific focus was on those individuals who identify as being U.S. citizens
– in post 5, I extended the discussion to reinforce that what the U.S. calls “citizenship-based taxation” is actually a system that impacts far more than those who identify as being U.S. citizens. In fact it burdens every individual on the planet who can’t demonstrate that he is a “nonresident” alien (people are renouncing U.S. citizenship because they can save themselves ONLY if they become a “nonresident alien”).
– in Post 6, I added the thoughts of Toronto Tax Professional Peter Megoudis who explained how those who are connected to “U.S. persons” (through family or business arrangements) can be impacted by the U.S. tax system
In Post 7, I extended the analysis to explain that:
1. Not only does the United States impose worldwide taxation on individuals who don’t live in the United States; but
2. The system of worldwide taxation imposed is in reality and separate and far more punitive collection of taxes than is imposed on Homeland Americans.
Think of it! With the exception of the United States, when a person moves away from the country and establishes tax residency in another country, they will no longer be taxed as a resident of the first country.
But in the case of the United States: If a U.S. citizen moves from the United States and establishes tax residency in a new country: (1) he will STILL be taxable as a tax resident of the United States (2) he will be subjected to a separate and more punitive system of taxation! (3) he will have to engage in financial planning according to the rules of the tax system where he resides. #YouCantMakeThisUp! I recently discussed this on Quora as follows …
We will now see how being subject to the U.S. tax system disables the individual, from being able to engage in the normal financial planning, that is optimal under the tax system where he resides. In effect, he will lose the tax benefits which are available to “non-U.S.” residents of his country of residence. The biggest cost of this is NOT the additional tax. The biggest cost is the opportunity cost of being disabled from normal financial planning. A discussion of “lost investing opportunity” in Canada is here.
Dr. Karen Alpert will now explain how the “loss of opportunity” works in an Australian context.
"What Is The Future Of Citizenship-Based Taxation?" Prof. William Byrnes (Texas A&M Law), Prof. Edward Zelinsky (Cardozo Law), John Richardson (Canadian attorney who represents US-Canada dual nationals), Kat Jennings (CEO Tax Connections) https://t.co/LP63MHEFYS
— William Byrnes (Tax Monk) (@williambyrnes) May 5, 2019
You are invited to submit your questions in advance. In fact, PLEASE submit questions. This is an opportunity to engage with Homelanders in general and the U.S. tax compliance community in particular.
Thanks to Professor Zelinsky for his willingness to engage in this discussion. Thanks to Kat Jennings of Tax Connections for hosting this discussion. Thanks to Professor William Byrnes for his willingness to moderate this discussion.
Tax Connections has published a large number of posts that I have written over the years (yes, hard to believe it has been years). As you may know I oppose FATCA, U.S. citizenship-based taxation and the use of FATCA to impose U.S. taxation on tax residents of other countries.
Tax Connections has also published a number of posts written by Professor Zelinsky (who apparently takes a contrary view).
This is post 7 in my series leading up to the May 17 Tax Connections discussion. The first six posts have been for the purpose of demonstrating:
– in posts 1 to 4, Laura Snyder did a wonderful job in explaining how the U.S. tax system impacts the lives of Americans abroad. Her specific focus was on those individuals who identify as being U.S. citizens
– in post 5, I extended the discussion to reinforce that what the U.S. calls “citizenship-based taxation” is actually a system that impacts far more than those who identify as being U.S. citizens. In fact it burdens every individual on the planet who can’t demonstrate that he is a “nonresident” alien (people are renouncing U.S. citizenship because they can save themselves ONLY if they become a “nonresident alien”).
– in Post 6, I added the thoughts of Toronto Tax Professional Peter Megoudis who explained how those who are connected to “U.S. persons” (through family or business arrangements) can be impacted by the U.S. tax system
In this, Post 7, I am extending the discussion to explain that:
1. Not only does the United States impose worldwide taxation on individuals who don’t live in the United States; but
2. The system of worldwide taxation imposed is in reality and separate and far more punitive collection of taxes than is imposed on Homeland Americans.
I have previously written on this topic at Tax Connections:
— John Richardson – lawyer for "U.S. persons" abroad (@ExpatriationLaw) May 9, 2019
Think of it! With the exception of the United States, when a person moves away from the country and establishes tax residency in another country, they will no longer be taxed as a resident of the first country.
But in the case of the United States: If a U.S. citizen moves from the United States and establishes tax residency in a new country, (1) he will STILL be taxable as a tax resident of the United States and (2) will be subjected to a separate and more punitive system of taxation! #YouCantMakeThisUp!
Although this truth is rarely understood and is rarely stated (it’s one of America’s “dirty little secrets”) here is an excerpt from a discussion I had with three international tax experts:
In this series of posts I am incorporating the thinking and writing of guest bloggers. In order to guide us in this discussion I welcome Virginia La Torre Jeker, a U.S. tax lawyer based in Dubai. I have previously featured Virginia in my “Unsung Heroes Of Life” Series.
Here are some links to some of my videos discussion various of aspects of FATCA and U.S. “citizenship-based taxation”. In general there are three sources:
2. Videos made at ThatChannel.com (a small Toronto internet based television station).
3. Podcasts at “PREP Podcaster” – featuring many interesting discussions with interesting people.
In March of 2019 I began a discussion at Tax Connections exploring the principle that:
“The United States is imposing a separate and more punitive tax system on people who are tax residents of other countries and do not live in the United States.”
As part of this discussion I had some discussion with Virginia La Torre Jeker, Peter Megoudis and Elena Hanson. Each of them is highly experienced and knowledgeable about how the U.S. tax system applies to Americans abroad and accidental Americans. The discussion took place in March of 2019. It turned out to be a very long discussion. Rather than include a video of the complete discussion, I have broken this into smaller videos that are based on themes.
This post is to separate and highlight the videos that resulted from this discussion. Continue reading →
So much publicity! So little relevance!
The New York primary was this week. Both Donald Trump and Hilary Clinton extended their leads and moved one step closer to their respective party’s nominations. (Mrs. Clinton with the approval of the Democratic Party and Mr. Trump with the disapproval of the Republican Party.) Interestingly both Mr. Trump and Mrs. Clinton have higher disapproval ratings than approval ratings. Yet each of them appears likely to represent their respective parties in the upcoming Presidential election. One of them will win the election (this is not the same as having been elected). Will the eventual winner make a positive difference in the life of any individual? Doubtful. Watching the political process contributes to a sense of negativity about human nature. But, wait! The World Is Full Of Good People!
Starting at the age of 7 or 8, I participated in four seasons of organized sports. To be truly effective, organized sports are highly dependent on adult volunteers. I well remember a guy named “Bob D.” Although I thought of him as old, he was probably somewhere between the age of 20 and 25. Anyway, “Bob D” was helping with baseball. “Bob D.” was helping with basketball. “Bob D.” was helping with football. “Bob D.” was always volunteering his time and coaching. I have a memory of my father noticing “Bob D.” and commenting “There are a lot of good people in this world”. So true. I don’t believe that “Bob D.” received a lot of recognition or a lot of gratitude. Yet year after year, season after season, week after week, day after day. “Bob D.” showed up. He clearly made a positive difference in the lives of others. The Unsung Heroes of Life
You will find people like “Bob D.” in every facet of life. They do things for people, just because they want to. They contribute to their communities, just because they want to. They provide mentorship for people, just because they want to. They put their kids through university because they want to. They are the true “Unsung Heroes of Life”. I once thought of writing a little book about these “Unsung Heroes of Life”. Although, I can’t do a book. I can offer this “Bedtime Story” … Continue reading →
