Tag Archives: renounce US citizenship

Good discussion on renouncing US citizenship AKA #citizide: The good, the bad and the ugly

This is one of the better interviews regarding US citizenship renunciation, covering a wide range of important issues.

Does the US provide #Americansabroad any benefits? Shouldn’t US #expats who find US @taxationabroad onerous just renounce their US citizenshp?

On May 30, 2020 the following question appeared on Quora and prompted some interesting answers and discussion:

As a defender of American “freedom”, how do you justify the fact that US citizens have to pay taxes to the US even if they live and work abroad (even if they have never been to the US but got their citizenship through their parents)?

I along with others attempted to answer the question. Here is my answer.

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Some of the most interesting analysis comes from the comments to the answers. See the following answer and comment. I have turned David Johnstone’s comment into a post.

One of the answers to the question included the suggestion that:

If someone lives and works abroad as an American citizen, he or she must be enjoying SOME benefits or they would logically renounce their US citizenship instead of paying US taxes. That would be a good solution for anyone facing this question. Just go!

David Johnstone responds to this answer with the following comment:

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Podcast – US Citizenship: Retain or Renounce – Streamlined, Relief Procedures For Former Citizens

(Interesting discussion in the above twitter feed.)

On April 30, 2020 I hosted a discussion with Karen Alpert, Laura Snyder, David Johnstone and Keith Redmond. The discussion touched on a variety of subjects of interest to Americans abroad and Accidental Americans.

The discussion included a segment on the September 2019 IRS Relief Procedures For Former citizens and how they compare to Streamlined compliance.

Bottom Line: It’s complicated. People are different. Different solutions for different people. But, for many:

“All Roads Lead To Renunciation”.

Recent economic upheaval creates expatriation opportunities for “US Persons” living abroad

This post was motivated by a thread on Reddit …

At the end of this post, I have included the Reddit thread. (Note that I am trying to develop a “RenounceUSCitizenship” thread on Reddit – you will find it here.)

As you know the US Section 877A Expatriation Tax applies to U.S. citizens and “Long Term Residents”. A “Long Term Resident” is an individual who has had a Green Card (as defined by the rules in Internal Revenue Code Section 7701(b)(6) for at least eight of the fifteen years prior to expatriation). This has become a serious problem for Green Card holders who simply move from the United States and and don’t take formal steps to sever their U.S. tax residency. (They must either file the I-407 or use a tax treaty tie breaker election to expatriate. Otherwise they may be in a situation where they have no right to live in the United States (having lost the immigration status) but are taxable on their worldwide income (still being tax citizens).

That said, whether you are a U.S. citizen wishing to renounce U.S. citizenship or a Long Term Resident wishing to sever U.S. tax residency, you do NOT want to be a “covered expatriate“. Generally, (unless one is subject to two exceptions – dual citizen from birth or expatriation between 18 and 181/2 – that are beyond the scope of this post), one is treated as a “covered expatriate” if one meets any one of these three tests:

1. Net worth of 2 million USD or more (which this post will focus on)

2. Average U.S. tax liability of more than approximately $165,000 USD over the five years prior to expatriation

3. Failure to certify U.S. tax compliance for the five years prior to expatriation.

The COVID-19 Panic – Falling asset values – more favourable exchange rates -2 million USD net worth test

The last couple of weeks have changed and continue to change our world. We are experiencing human misery on an unprecedented and global scale. This includes physical illness, fear of illness and social distancing. I live in a large city and I am beginning to see less variety in the food available. Self-employed people are seeing disruptions to their revenue streams, etc. I don’t want to keep listing examples. But it is very bad. On the economic front, we are seeing unprecedented and incalculable damage to the world economy. This includes (but is not limited to) falling asset values – how is your stock portfolio doing? We see currencies that are weakening relative to the U.S. dollar. (This means that a higher Canadian or Australian dollar net worth would equal 2 million USD.) As I write this post I just received a message, from someone advising me that the shares in a certain cruise ship stock, have fallen from $136 to $22. (My advice would be: Don’t spend money on the cruise. Instead buy the shares in the company.)

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#Citizide? Letting Go And Moving On – Online Renunciation Discussion

The situation for many Americans abroad has reached the boiling point. On Saturday November 9, 2019 I will be hosting an online discussion about renunciation generally and HOW TO DECIDE WHETHER IT MAKES SENSE FOR YOU SPECIFICALLY. The time will be 7:00 a.m. EST (Toronto time). This means that it should work for people in most parts of the world. Although, general in nature, I will attempt to answer as many individual questions as time permits. I recognize that this is a very difficult issue for people – spanning the emotional, financial, identity, etc. That said, the U.S. Government is forcing Americans abroad to consider renunciation as a defensive measure to protect themselves and their families.
See the announcement on Twitter below.
If you are not on Twitter feel free to email me at: expatriationlaw at outlook dot com for registration.
The discussion will last approximately one hour.
John Richardson – Follow me on Twitter at @Expatriationlaw


If you are not on Twitter feel free to email me at: expatriationlaw at outlook dot com for registration.

Why tax compliant #Americansabroad are under great pressure to renounce US citizenship #citizide

Introduction …
Many individuals (Solomon Yue, Keith Redmond, and MANY others) have been working very hard on tax reform for Americans abroad. Many groups (ACA, AARO, DA, etc.) have also been working. The basic goal is to support Congressman Holding’s bill which would provide some tax relief. This has been a long and difficult process (which will eventually succeed), it is very hard for individual legislators to understand the issues. This motivated me to tweet the following:


A response to this tweet included: “So the only resolution is to renounce citizenship. Correct?”
My thoughts to this response …

How can the IRS enforce US tax debts in foreign countries? Does renunciation of citizenship matter?

For years people have asked the question: Can the United States enforce U.S. tax debts in foreign countries? If this is possible, how would this work. I sometimes answer questions on Quora. My answer to this question (comments invited) is here:
Read John Richardson's answer to Can the IRS confiscate non US-based assets for taxes owed after someone renounces their citizenship? on Quora

Considering renouncing US citizenship? Meet a person who I suggested NOT commit #citizide


For most U.S. citizens attempting to live outside the United States (in compliance with U.S. laws), their days as U.S. citizens are coming to an end. Those who have ignored the fiscal demands required of Americans abroad (meaning they have not entered the U.S. tax system) will be able to retain U.S. citizenship for the foreseeable future. But, for those who do file U.S. taxes and attempt to comply with the outrageous demands of the United States (FBAR, forms, PFIC, Transition Tax, GILTI, Subpart F and more), they experience life like this:
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Considering renouncing US citizenship? Thinking #citizide? @Expatriationlaw moderates a "Retain or Renounce" conversation among a lawyer, a financial planner and an accountant

As 2018 comes to a close, the “Retain or Renounce” discussion intensifies. American Citizens Abroad (ACA) writes that …


The @citizide twitter account frames the question as follows …

In an #FBAR and #FATCA world #Americansabroad ask: “To retain or renounce US citizenship, whether tis better to live free ..” – #citizide explore this question

The hashtag #citizide has been established in the twittersphere …
The “Retain or Renounce” question is discussed by a wide range or professional advisers …

U.S. citizens living outside the United States are considering whether to: "Retain or renounce?" This is a decision that…

Posted by Citizenship Solutions on Monday, January 15, 2018

To hear the snippets of the discussion continue on …
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