Seeking short social media – twitter and facebook posts – explaining why @citizenshiptax and #FATCA are wrong

On June 3, 2020 I plan to do a podcast with Anthony Scaramucci of Skybridge Capital and SALT Conference fame. The June 3 podcast has its roots in the following @Scaramucci tweet which was the subject of discussion at the Isaac Brock Society.

Mr. Scaramucci’s tweet generated a great deal of discussion. If you click on the tweet, you will see, what some of the responses were.

A third party individual has arranged for me to do a podcast with Mr. Scaramucci. This will take place on June 3. In order to provide background information for “citizenship taxation”, FATCA and how they impact Americans abroad, I would ask that you reply to the following tweet. It is your opportunity to contribute to the conversation.

Feel free to leave a comment to this post. I will ensure that it finds its way into the twitter thread.

John Richardson – Follow me on Twitter @Expatriationlaw

8 thoughts on “Seeking short social media – twitter and facebook posts – explaining why @citizenshiptax and #FATCA are wrong

  1. Nando

    Governments collect taxes to pay for services that are shared across the population that is taxed. Taxation of Americans living abroad is fundamentally wrong because the United States does not provide one penny of revenue to pay for these services in any region of the world outside of the US. I would like to hear this issue addressed more frequently.

    I live in Europe. The roads, bridges, water and sewer systems, garbage collection, police, fire department, health department … all these services and much more are paid for by my local governments, city state and federal, using taxes that are _already_ collected from me from these governmental agencies to fund them.

    I should not be required to pay for these services again, for a region of the world I don’t live in, just because I was born in America?

    The other way that governments collect money is through criminal penalties. Since the US government doesn’t provide any services in exchange for the money it collects from expat Americans, that money collected is much closer to a monetary penalty in nature – one without a crime having been committed.

  2. Rob Ge

    I am an accidental American in the Netherlands.
    Yes, I am born in the US, but my DUTCH parents went back to the Netherlands when I was 2 years old. Now I am 63 years old and caused by Fatca and CBT my banks will close all my bank accounts because I do not have a SSN number and I do not have a CLN.
    The cost to get a CLN is to very high and even when I do not have to pay any Tax to the US I have to hire expensive TAX advisers to help me to proof that. This can cost me more than €10.000 …….

    I do not have any familie and no assets in the US. I have studied and worked in the Netherlands 61 years and have paid my Dutch TAX for more than 40 years.
    What is the justification for the US to let me pay TAX to a country I have not lived and have no ties with. I am not allowed to vote In the US I have no influence at all on this.

    I had never heard about CLN before my bank send me letters about FATCA about 3 years ago.
    If I had known I should have made different choices many many years ago.
    How could I have known? Beside the US only Eritrea has CLN Tax.

    When I tell this to my Dutch family and friends they don’t believe it is true.
    It is a great injustice.
    I am fighting against this for 3 years now and will lose this fight within a few month….
    Bank, dutch politics, european politics, they are all afraid for the economic sanctions of the US.
    It is powerplay on a high level and I am the victim.


    1. Mike

      Rob…Remember, the USA cannot make you comply with anything at all and certainly can’t make you pay. Nobody can make you play their game!

      1. RobGe

        Hello Mile, Thank you, I know. But my/our biggest problem is that the banks are closing my accounts because In do not have a SSN and CLN. They are blackmailing all accidental Americans to get an SSN or a CLN.
        Regards, Rob

  3. Emil Boychuk

    Thanks for this effort. My wife was born in the US and we have to be careful with things like selling our house when we retire. The US land of freedom is not respecting the freedom of people everywhere else.

  4. Nando

    Citizenship based taxation by the United States is deeply flawed, particularly because the US employs an extreme amount of leverage to enforce it outside of its borders. And that leverage creates a LOT of collateral damage, undermining the ability of US persons living anywhere else in the world to manage their financial affairs, often to a significant degree.

    I’m working with a small group of people to do some good in the world regarding climate change. Our group includes a few Americans and Europeans. We want to set up a joint holding company. Legally, there is no issue, but it is impossible for us to find a bank willing to work with us in Europe. Their legal risk is much too great to open an account for a company that would be partly American owned.

    Banks here in Europe treat Americans essentially the same as sanctioned individuals. Why? Because they face the same financial risks in both cases – the risk of severe fines being imposed on them. FATCA is in effect a sanction on all US persons, undermining our ability to conduct business and manage our finances through financial institutions.

    When FATCA was first imposed here in Switzerland, I walked into my local bank and asked to open an account. I told the rep that I was a longtime resident, showed her my residency permit, and said that I was also an American citizen. She replied by asking me to leave the bank immediately, gesturing to the entrance with her open hand. “We don’t open accounts for Americans.” That was a shock.

    The damage is not only from the loss of financial services, but is also psychological. I am not equal to those around me, and have become painfully aware of it.

    The banks here will also intensively question native Swiss citizens when they want to open an account if they have any ties to America or an American. Do you know any Americans here? Do you have any American friends?

    Why? Because a sympathetic Swiss person might open an account and allow an American to operate it to get around the restrictions, and if the American authorities find out, the bank would be severely fined.

    I have a Swiss friend who came to me and apologized. “I lied to the bank and told them I did not know any Americans. I was afraid they would not open an account for me if I told them the truth. I’m very sorry, but I felt I had no choice. It was like a police interrogation.”

    Put the shoe on the other foot. Imagine that for some reason people of German origin could not open bank accounts in America, and any time an American opened an account, they would be questioned rather intensely if they know any “German persons”. “Germans can’t open bank accounts here.” Do you think that some Americans would form a negative opinion about these people? Stop doing business with these “German persons”? Of course they would. If the banks don’t trust them, why should I take the risk of dealing with them. The fact that it was an imposition of an overbearing German law that created the issue in the first place would just make it worse.

    A “US person” in Europe is now much more likely to be marginalized thanks to all the effort the US has put into criminalizing us for living ordinary, normal lives outside of US borders.

  5. Walter

    I am now also a “Zufalls Amerikaner”, “accidental American” I think like thousands here in Germany!

    My bank account is closed last week!” because of FATCA- accidental Americans get in trouble!

    I can keep my credit! wow!

    I am (now unfortunately) born in the USA in 1967 but have been living in Germany since I was one, both parents are German and I see myself as such. I also work in Germany and pay my taxes here.
    I have no connection with the USA.

    the bank asks for self-disclosure, I was selected because my place of birth is in the USA.
    Here I have to enter a TIN (US tax number)

    Since I don’t have an SSN Social Security number, I don’t get a TIN.
    I was never aware of being taxable in the United States. I now had to find out through my bank.

    Will all banks in Germany now deny me an account because of my dual citizenship?

    It is very difficult for me to understand why I am treated differently because of my dual citizenship than if I only had German citizenship.

    For me, the whole thing borders on discrimination, especially because of my place of birth!

    In my opinion, the disclosure of my personal and financial data is also a direct violation of the General Data Protection Regulation.

    I am not concerned with the amount of taxes that may have to be paid (in my case probably none at all), but with the costs and the effort for an additional tax return. (I am not familiar with tax law in the USA). The renouncing of US citizenship currently costs around 2000 € +
    Tax return from a professional tax advisor around 2000 €.

    I also had a conversation with an integration officer:
    They were very surprised by the way the banks proceeded and were not aware of the extent of what FATCA actually means for random Americans: (I don’t know if the federal government will do anything else here)

    In France and England, Holland all over the world there are a lot of accidental Americans active, apparently not in Germany.


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